23. Breaking Workplace Taboos: About ADHD with Jade Goulding and Prina Shah

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Hello and welcome to this episode of Ways to Change Your Workplace with Myself Prina Shah, where we uncover today how you can find ways to optimize your organizational culture. Hello and welcome to this episode of Ways to Change Your Workplace with Myself Prina Shah. And I'm really, really pleased to be talking with Jade Golding today, who's based in Queensland. Jade, welcome. Jade, I want to talk to you today about something that is very poignant to me because lots of people have been talking about it. And I'm titling this podcast episode. I've got my notes here, Breaking Workplace Taboos About ADHD. Now, controversial in the sense that no one really talks about it. And around, I was talking with Jade recently. So Jade is a fellow entrepreneur and we share stories about work life. And Jade told me that she's been diagnosed with ADHD recently and navigating this new world. And in our conversation, Jade, I also told you that around in the last three or four months, around four of my friends who are in the workplace have been diagnosed with ADHD as well. So yes, we got talking and I invited Jade to the podcast. So, Jade, welcome. Before we get into the details of what we're going to talk about, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, what you do, how you got to where you are today, and why you do it, please, Jade?

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Yeah, sure. Um, so I'm a communications professional. Um, my business is actually communication illustrations, helping consultants and organizations simplify complex information into a visual medium. I uh have been in comms and marketing and graphic design for 17 years. So uh long journey through different industries. Um, and also I'm an artist. So um I feel like at the moment I'm really just coming into what uh brings all of my skills together into something that is actually really helpful and been really useful for um helping people, particularly consultants and people who have complex information to share. Um, I've really, yeah, really been enjoying doing that recently and it's sort of I've stumbled across it in the last few months, and it's yeah, it's going really well actually.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Excellent. Um, for people who don't know your work, Jade, I'm gonna put your details in the show notes. You have to check it out. Jade's way of translating complex information into visuals is just something else. I am a huge fan of Jade's work, and just yeah, I don't know how your brain processes all of that detail into visual simplified uh images that everyone can understand. So you make knowledge very accessible, Jade, is how I summarize it. Yeah, I love your stuff. Uh thank you. Yeah, so I've I was fascinated by Jade's work when I first saw it, and that's how we started talking, and then came this. So, Jade, as I said, many of my friends have recently been diagnosed with ADHD in their 40s. Some of them are okay with it and you know, embracing it and just dealing with it, and some have this real uh sense of shame and just this yuckiness about them. So I want to really focus on this as a topic. But before we begin, can you explain to us what ADHD is, please?

SPEAKER_02 3:49

Yeah, so ADHD, um, I guess the most common thing that people think of is hyperactive young boys. And for quite a long time that has been the main uh, I guess, focus of medical uh like medical research and diagnoses, but in more recent times it that has broadened and um there's a a newer understanding about the ADHD brain and what that means for people. So um in my I'll just talk from my point of view, I guess, because I'm not a medical expert, but so my understanding um that I have I've struggled probably my whole life with depression and anxiety and had diagnosed that very early on. Uh I've always just sort of felt that something wasn't right, it didn't quite fit. Things, I mean, on the surface, I was really smart, really doing pretty well at school up until about the age of 16. Um, things started getting a bit more tricky with um, like I guess, with substances and um just struggling socially and struggling with my school work. But um for me personally at that time my parents had split up. So there was I didn't really have much support in those times to really get uh proper diagnosis or proper understanding of what was going on for me. So anyway, fast forward, I've muddled through life, managed to, you know, I managed to get my uni degree, albeit it took four years instead of three. Um, and it's not because ADHD is not a lack of intelligence, is there's the the struggles are around the way the brain functions. So um my point of view is that the brain, the ADHD brain functions a bit differently to what the way that systems are set up in the world. So the struggles and the tensions come when um we have to fit into a system that just doesn't co collaborate well with the way that our brain works. So it's sort of like and I I feel like this is this similar for most neurodiversity, is that the brain functions differently, and that's like the hardware. And then the software is like our personality and our traits and the things that develop over time, but our hardware is actually different. So there's I sort of think that there's different types of brains, different types of hardware that actually we possibly don't fully understand um as a human race quite yet. Um so so the struggles are around um executive dysfunction. So that can be that it varies for people and it varies um depending on how stressed you are or what might be going on in your life. So sometimes you might be functioning quite well, sometimes not. So that involves things like planning, prioritizing, being organized. Um, it's sort of like ADHD is like having a thousand tabs open all at the same time. They're all very important. Everything needs attending to all at once. So overwhelm is a really common thing for people with ADHD. I think that if you see somebody functioning in life and they have ADHD, you've got to give them some credit because it is very difficult to get your ducks in a row. Like, there's not ducks, there's like cats and elephants and like all kinds of things going on, and you're trying to herd them all together into some sort of order.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

I I love the way you even speak visually. Thank you very much. Wow. Oh, what a what a description. So hardware, uh, lots of tabs, thousands of tabs open. Jade, uh, in my mini research that I did for this, I looked up just a generic, you know, Google search of what is ADHD. And here I've got ADHD stands for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. It is a medical condition. A person with ADHD had has differences in brain development and brain activity that affect attention, the ability to sit still, and self-control. ADHD can affect a child at school, at home, and in friendships. So hello, here we go. Still, we're still primarily allocating it to kids. Um, but now things are changing and um it I'm seeing it become more prevalent with women. But maybe that's just because of the echo chamber that I'm in and the circles, you know, that I uh I'm in. But yeah, can I ask you from a personal perspective? And you know, you can, like you said, only talk about yourself. What is ADHD like for you being an employee and an entrepreneur? Because I know you juggle the both as well, which is amazing.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

Yeah, so I think part of uh from what I can gather from my data of other ADHD is, um, we're we're very akin to entrepreneurial tendencies because um essentially our brains are seeking out dopamine. We have a an interest-based nervous system, which means we function really well when we're interested in things. We don't function well when we're not interested in things, so that can lead to things like inertia, depression, uh being really um really struggling to get things done that you need to get done, like housework, for example. Um I think that um sorry, I just lost my train.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

That's okay, that's okay. Uh so from a workplace perspective, how has it affected you when you have had jobs at work?

SPEAKER_02 10:06

Sure. So um actually that's a c just on that, that is actually a common thing for ADHD people to do. So you to lose your train of thought, you get put on the spot, and then you suddenly think about how you're thinking, and then you forget what you're saying. So as an example, um, yeah. So as an employee, I like I so I started working really young. My first job, I was working on the farm as a kid with my dad, and then flipping burgers at a truck stop when I was 13. And ever since then I've had jobs, and that has kept me stimulated and kept me learning, which I think is a really important thing for me personally, is that continual learning. Like I always need to be learning something new because the new things bring over me. So, in a workplace, um, if you've got someone with ADHD and you can match them with some tasks and some projects that they're really interested in and passionate about, you will get the best productivity, the best outcomes. Because I I know for myself, I am so determined to achieve good things. Um, probably part of that is conditioning a little bit for you know feeling like you don't quite fit in and needing to please people, but that's that's a separate podcast. But yeah, if you're as an employee, if you have like I know for me, if I've got projects that I'm really interested in, like I got really interested in um measurement and evaluation of communications. So really got into data and understanding data and outcomes of data, why we do communication marketing activity and what the outcomes are, not just like we got a you know five likes on a post, but like what are the actual outcomes for people, for humans. I got really into that in one of my workplaces and developed a whole measurement and evaluation framework that could help people to set goals and set objectives, and then a whole thing about how they can measure them and like determine what the outcomes are for their work. So there's real opportunity for people. Um, if you do if if people are open and not feeling that shame about talking about their ADHD, and they've learned about themselves and what best traits they have in that space. Yeah, if you're an employer, you could really you can really about have so much value out of somebody with neurodiversity because there are things about our brains that are really awesome. Yes, we have struggles, but like every human who does has struggles, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Yeah, it's tapping into those elements. That's a really good point. So we're talking about that from a workplace perspective, and now we're leading to the individual. So I'm thinking about one person in particular, you know, one of my friends who's just carrying this shame and it's such a heavy weight, you know, and she's dealing with lots of stuff as well, on top of you know, this crappy shame feeling that she has. So, in relation to that, when an individual is diagnosed with it, how does one come out to the workplace? And this is, I know again, this is just only from your perspective, so we we are very mindful of that also. Um, how could one come out to the workplace uh and not be, I guess, stigmatized, stereotyped, uh whatever people feel in their head that you know is stopping them?

SPEAKER_02 13:43

I think it is such a sensitive subject, and I totally understand why people do feel um shame. Well, not I mean, yeah, I do understand why people feel shame. Um, I wanna would want to encourage people to really find first the their own embracing of what the ADHD means for them.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:09

So firstly, just finding your own sense of acceptance of yourself, um, which can be really difficult and it can take a process, especially if you've had a late diagnosis. I know for me, I went through the sort of like grief and then anger or the cycles of you know that that cycle, you go through that. Why didn't anybody pick this up earlier for me? Like, why, why, why me? Like, um, I if only I'd known, if only my brain was different, I wouldn't have effed up all those things because quite often people will find that there's things that have happened in their lives that just don't understand why or how it for me, it was like, why or how did I mess that up so badly? And now I now I understand it's just because my brain's just because my brain and I just didn't know. So there's sort of like a process of going, okay, well, that's that's the past, that was how that was. This is what I've got now to deal with. Um also I think finding self-acceptance, connecting with others who are in a similar position is really important because you can talk about what you're in, what your struggles with with people who really understand and get it. Um and then I think once you've got that and you've got an understanding of how you operate, what your strengths are, what your weaknesses might be, then talking to someone in your workplace that you really trust, that you know is going to be uh supportive and accepting. I mean, workplaces should be already and should be inclusive, but you just don't you just don't know. Not nothing's perfect yet, is it? So um that would be my advice, I guess, around is first finding that self-acceptance, connecting into a community with others and having somebody that you can talk with and be supportive with, and then finding someone in your workplace that you trust to talk about it and talk about with them what your strengths are and what you might be able to bring as a person with ADHD. Once you've found that, you know, because if you are feeling if you're feeling um nervous, anxious, shameful, it's gonna be hard to bring positive spin to the workplace. Um but but in saying that if you know if you if you're finding that your symptoms are really hard, it it then still finding that person you trust to talk about why things are hard. Because I because the other thing that I have noticed is that people can lose jobs and go through a transition in work without without having that support because they have do have to feel shame. So yeah, I think there's a few things in there to try to um try to move forward with, try to open up with some people, um, to get that support.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

And yeah, that's no, no, that's really practical. So it's really that that self-uh review, self-understanding, self-compassion, I think is a massive factor here, also, and truly understanding yourself in terms of you know uh the pros and cons of what you have and how that relates to you in your job uh at work, but then when you can having that conversation with the right person that you trust who will be your advocate, I guess, in the workplace as well. And I know, Jade, so our audience for this podcast are you know, HR people as well as uh all sorts of leaders across the globe. So, from a practical workplace perspective, I know there's lots of you know wonderful work happening in relation to inclusivity as well, but I don't think we've touched on the factor of ADHD in the workplace and how the workplace can actually support you. So I think this is the start of a conversation. And if people want to reach out to you, to me, let's continue this conversation because I think this is just the beginning of something wonderful. And um, people with ADHD or neurodiverse, you know, brain hardwiring have so much to contribute. And I've seen so many success stories also in that respect. Um, that I think a one-to-one conversation is often better because it depends on the workplace culture, also. I feel Jade. And I know when you do have a neurodiverse uh thing, uh the workplace culture is a massive factor as to how you're going to fit in, also, and that's just a whole complex uh situation itself, isn't it? Um Jade, I've got one final question for you. If I was to give you a magic wand, what is one way that you would change the way of the workplace?

SPEAKER_02 19:09

Oh, I think um, well, it's sort of like a twofold thing, and I think it would be in relation to all of this is inclusivity and connection, human connection. Um, having a human-centered focus as a leader is absolutely critical to getting the stuff done that you need to get done because it's people that are doing it. If people don't feel connected in at work, they're not gonna stick around, they're not doing their best work, they are feeling disconnected because we're humans before we're not robots. We need we need to feel connected and valued and appreciated, and uh it's not just that's not just um fluff stuff, I think. I think some leaders still you know park that kind of thinking and park that compassion and empathy thing for the HR team or for somebody else to do. But if you're a leader, you have a responsibility to develop your empathy, to develop your compassion and to find ways to um support connection. Not, I mean, you don't have to be connected to everybody, but support connection of others and to make people feel genuinely valued and um supported in the workplace. So yeah, I think that's what I would that's my big thing that I would love to see in more workplaces.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Are you ready to take a stand against crappy workplace cultures, lousy leaders, and toxic teams? If that's you, if you're ready, then you need to join the Ways to Change Your Workplace Facebook group, which is linked in today's show notes. I'll see you there, and I'm looking forward to you tuning in to the next episode. Ciao for now.